have u ever

[prady]

have u ever met anyone u would say had actual realisations?
why did u think they had them?
i really want to meet a teacher with compassion....anyone met one?

[JCL]

prady said:

have u ever met anyone u would say had actual realisations?

lol yeah and her name's andrea

[prady]

shuuuttt upppp u nob

[JCL]

hahahaha ;D well u told me bout a few of ur experiences n it seems 2 fit

[prady]

fair enough i have had some mad experiences but i don't feel like thet qualify as realisations...because i guess i don't really have anything i have experienced stable. not lke some of these people u can meet who seem to be able to be in a state of love all the time etc...
like my guru he is am amazing dude ;D and i think he can do alsorts...mmm i can just manage to keep my head above water he seems to be able to keep his head above water and do amazing things too ;D

[tzewang]

i've met a few teachers in the conext of public teachings that i think have attained some level of realisation. namely his holiness dalai lama and yongey mingyur dorje. but i have never known them in a personal conext, so it is hard to tell. if there is such a thing as enlightenment and its not a figment of our collective imagination, then these two people are the closest i have come to 'meeting it'.

dan

[ironfeather]

Most compassionate eyes I have seen in many years, belonged to Roshi Philip Kapleau. He is greatly missed. :'

[prady]

ironfeather said:

Most compassionate eyes I have seen in many years, belonged to Roshi Philip Kapleau. He is greatly missed. :'

oh thats a shame IF i hope u meet another teacher like that

[Satori]

Before I answer your original question, I guess I need more clarification on what you mean by realizations. For instance, when it comes to enlightenment, we can become enlightened periodically to a certain degree ... and then there's the ultimate "enlightenment," which is a bit different. So are you talking about some type of ultimate "realization" or are you speaking of mastering certain lessons and challenges in life that allow you to operate on a much higher level? I guess I'm just not clear about what's being asked.

I do know several people who have learned compassion and non-judgment and who are pretty much capable of operating at that level for much of the time. And even though I don't know the Dalai Lama personally, I would certainly think he qualifies as being at the top of the list in that respect. However, the Dalai Lama and Richard Gere have both commented about the fact that the Dalai Lama still has anger that he deals with in life. So I think it's important to understand that as long as any of us are in a physical body, we will always have to deal with our karma and our emotional and physical states. The only difference is that with certain attainment and enlightenment, doing so becomes much easier.

Did that answer your question in any way or was that completely off-base?

[prady]

well i not being fussy about my realisations...mmm..i knew this was important for me to write up...i'm learning stuff here... i need to have a ponder..

[Satori]

I think I know what you were trying to ask, and I could probably give a couple of examples, but I'll wait to see if I was right first!!

[prady]

i want to meet a teacher that has deep realisations of bodhichitta i want to get to know them and watch and learn how it works practically because i tried really hard to have bodhichitta and i feel i failed .
and then when i see how bodhichitta works i wanna watch it intergrated with emptiness...

this is my little fantasy

[Satori]

prady said:

i want to meet a teacher that has deep realisations of bodhichitta i want to get to know them and watch and learn how it works practically because i tried really hard to have bodhichitta and i feel i failed .
and then when i see how bodhichitta works i wanna watch it intergrated with emptiness...

this is my little fantasy

Well, I don't know about which teachers you could meet in your area or about watching it integrated with emptiness, but I do know that a couple of my teachers (metaphysical not Buddhist) are able to operate off of a compassionate level for most of the time. They have passed on some helpful tips to me over the years that have helped me to be more compassionate in life.

Most of the problem has to do with judgment. Judgment attaches us to situations and people and does not afford a healthy atmosphere for compassion. I remember once years ago when I was struggling with trying not to judge my mom and an ex-boyfriend (who was still an active friend in my life back then). They were both extremely deceitful and manipulative people, and I had a difficult time separating myself from the abuse they would invariably try to inflict on me. I kept seeing it as negative and tried to stay positive and removed from it as best I could; but as you can imagine, it just was not working, because eventually the negativity would come back on me and I would end up having to deal with their crap in the end, and find myself angry as a result. It was very frustrating.

One of my teachers pointed out that I was still judging them as being limited or lacking in life, and as long as I held that view, then that judgment would perpetuate their negative behavior -- as well as prevent them from moving out of that type of behavior! Judgment can oftentimes lock a person or situation into a holding pattern, and then no one really changes and grows as a result.

She told me to instead try to view them with compassion when those situations occurred, and in order to do that I should view them as being as creative as they knew how to be at those times. Sure, they were using their creativity in destructive ways, but it was still creative energy, which is abundant! And when I viewed them as being creative, then I viewed them as being in an abundant place, which frees up positive energy and does not foster the negative.

Another example of judgment interfering with compassion would be when I found myself in situations over the years where it would be easy to judge someone for what I viewed as having limited beliefs. I was raised Christian but rejected that belief system when I was 14 years old. But there was a time in my mid- to late-30s when I worked as an associate editor for a non-denominational Christian organization that published a monthly magazine. I was overcoming health issues and needed some no-brainer work, so that's why I left the legal field for a time for that type of work. Anyway, listening to the sermons and Bible studies of beliefs that I no longer held was a real challenge for me in non-judgment. It was so easy to sit there and judge the hell out of these people when I would hear comments like, "We're all wretched sinners," etc. I used to roll my eyes at those kind of comments, and then the judgment would inevitably get to me, and I found myself struggling with anger and hatred as a result.

What helped me to have compassion and not judge these people was to recognize that they were trying their best in life and just because our beliefs differed, it did not mean either one of us was right. It merely meant that what they believed was right for them, and that what I believed was right for me. It all had to do with our particular karma that we needed to work through, and was not about right or wrong in the general sense.

Another thing that helped me was to view these situations the same as if I had been traveling to another country and culture, in which case I would view their belief system as "quaint" and not be judgmental about it. So when I would see that these Christians viewed God as a father, I could compassionately recognize that these were people who needed a father figure in their lives, and that they were dealing with a lot of fear and needed that type of comfort. They believed that this world had power over them, and as long as they held that view, they would always need someone to save them.

Now, whenever I see someone at a forum who is locked into the ego-level of "look at all I know and have learned, let me be the one to teach you," I don't judge it but feel compassion for the person, as I know it is merely one stage on their path of learning to disengage from ego. It's obvious they have not learned to disengage from ego's control, but that doesn't mean that where they are at is unimportant either. It's all part of the process. Another way to think of it would be to imagine yourself in college and viewing others in high school or grade school. Just because they are in grade school or high school does not mean that their experiences are invalid or insufficient. In fact, they have to pass through those levels in order to reach college! In addition, someone in college is not necessarily better than someone in high school. Rather, it merely means that the person in college has more knowledge, that's all. But it's what each person does with that information that's important, not necessarily where they are at in life. So I find that type of thinking to be helpful in remaining compassionate.

I don't know if ANY of this is helpful to you at all. I only offer it here, because you indicated you wanted to know what helped people REMAIN compassionate, not just reach that level, and all of these situations helped me do that, so I figured they might help you as well. On the other hand, you didn't elaborate on what caused you to lose your compassion, so maybe these are not good examples of what you were needing to know. My apologies, if not. What kind of situations cause you to lose compassion at times?

[monkeymind]

I think so...but would I "know" it if I did? LOL Would I get a PM letting me know ahead of time?
Anyone who is enlightened would never admit to it.
Isn't something like the inka ceremony to verify kensho or satori required of monks who go on to become rinpoche or master?

So if that's the case, I think it would be safe to say Venerable Khenchen Palden Sherab Rinpoche and Venerable Khenchen Tsewang Dongyal Rinpoche, who I met this fall, are experienced in samadhi awareness, though I wasn't there personally when when they realized their original natures but I have faith they have.

I'll bet there are other "enlightened" teachers. Have you ever met anyone who is "enlightened?" Does it mean they can't ever say or do something "unenlightened" afterwards? Hmmmm....

[Satori]

She was talking about realizations, not enlightenment, I believe. Unless I missed something!