Just because I'm Paranoid it doesn't mean they're

[alexandra]

Not after YOU.....

I wil tell you how it is with me....

I have had the good fortune to participate in several Buddhist forums recently.
I have also had the saddening experience of just leaving them again.
And here's the problem.
OK, I'm British, living in France...
Most of the fora are based or originate in the States, yes?
So in many ways, I'm metaphorically speaking, on the 'outside' looking in...
And this is what it seems like, to me....

There's a lot of disruption happening on these Buddhist Fora... but it's simultaneous, and it's harsh, sudden and destructive.
You might even be forgiven for thinking it's orchestrated.
It's all happened within the last few weeks... and it's hit every single forum I personally have been on.
Same people, same agenda....

America is one of the most vociferously Christian countries I know.
I further know, both from speaking to folks on here, and through media information, that the bible belt is wide, strong and strapping, loud and imposing.
Dissent is not only frowned upon, but it's also condemned and vilified

The best-case scenario is that these so-called Buddhist extremists are simply attempting to create havoc by seeking fiercely to impose their own stringent dogmas and impressions on others by ridiculing them, deriding the brand of buddhism they ascribe to, and through veiled condescending insults about their provenance and namby-pamby fluffy unintelligent approach. And I'm citing that as something that has been laid before me, in accusation.
Fine....

the worst-case scenario is that these fanatical Budhists are more than that... they are highly educated theological experts who are hell-bent (pardon the phrase) in creating disharmony and discord among devoted Buddhists, by clever use of memorised Sutras and scriptures, and by undermining those whose knowledge is deep and consistent, through counter-arguments and contradiction...
Bible-thumping Buddhists......

Call me paranoid if you like.
It doesn't ultimately affect me all that deeply, because as I said, I'm kind of on the outside looking in...
Interesting that all these disruptive influences are States-side, though....
And those amongst us (like me, and maybe others whom have sought to ring alarm bells because we can see what is happening) have patronisingly been tapped on the head at times, and told not to panic, and to be tolerant and to just sit back and wait and see what happens, and that if the situation worsens then maybe we'll have a quiet word with them.....
and in the meantime, the bomb in the bag, on the crowded railway terminal is ticking....and the kid who's tried to warn the rail-guard has been sent away with a lollipop....

If a woman went to a doctor with a large lump in her breast, and it was found to be malign, she'd be asked,
"Why didn't you come to us when you first noticed it? Why didn't you tell us before..?"
"Well," she may reply, sheepishly, "I thought it was probably bad, but i didn't want to worry anyone about it... and I thought it might just go away...."

Well it IS bad.
And it IS worth worrying about.
And it WON'T just go away.
Not until it has completely invaded the whole system, infected it from top to bottom and destroyed it from inside.

I suggest Forum founders liaise and exchange information.

Just my two cents worth.

Enjoy your Sundays....

[nighthawk]

Not after YOU.....

I wil tell you how it is with me....

I have had the good fortune to participate in several Buddhist
forums recently. I have also had the saddening experience of just
leaving them again. And here's the problem. OK, I'm British,
living in France... Most of the fora are based or originate in the
States, yes? So in many ways, I'm metaphorically speaking, on the
'outside' looking in... And this is what it seems like, to me....

There's much to be said for being the observer I think, and it IS
easy to feel distanced from it all, and maybe even lonely, but
then I'll think to myself that maybe it's really a blessing for
one to be able to distance one's self from the horror show and be
the observer.

There's a lot of disruption happening on these Buddhist
Fora... but it's simultaneous, and it's harsh, sudden and
destructive. You might even be forgiven for thinking it's
orchestrated. It's all happened within the last few weeks... and
it's hit every single forum I personally have been on. Same
people, same agenda....

I think it is. That's been a harsh and disturbing truth to absorb.

America is one of the most vociferously Christian countries I
know. I further know, both from speaking to folks on here, and
through media information, that the bible belt is wide, strong and
strapping, loud and imposing. Dissent is not only frowned upon,
but it's also condemned and vilified

I agree.

The best-case scenario is that these so-called Buddhist
extremists are simply attempting to create havoc by seeking
fiercely to impose their own stringent dogmas and impressions on
others by ridiculing them, deriding the brand of buddhism they
ascribe to, and through veiled condescending insults about their
provenance and namby-pamby fluffy unintelligent approach. And I'm
citing that as something that has been laid before me, in
accusation. Fine....

Very unbuddhist indeed .

the worst-case scenario is that these fanatical Budhists
are more than that... they are highly educated theological experts
who are hell-bent (pardon the phrase) in creating disharmony and
discord among devoted Buddhists, by clever use of memorised Sutras
and scriptures, and by undermining those whose knowledge is deep
and consistent, through counter-arguments and contradiction...
Bible-thumping Buddhists......

Call me paranoid if you like.

Okay .. and feel free to call me paranoid too. My paranoia is for
good reason, and although it has provided an excellent antenna
system for self-protection, paranoia has been the bane of my life.
Paranoia, which is fear, a subdued and chronic bubbling soup of
fear and resentment and all that list, eats at me and destroys my
capacity to love or be loved. I'm certainly up to dumping
paranoia. Brrr.

It doesn't ultimately affect me all that deeply, because as I
said, I'm kind of on the outside looking in... Interesting that
all these disruptive influences are States-side, though.... And
those amongst us (like me, and maybe others whom have sought to
ring alarm bells because we can see what is happening) have
patronisingly been tapped on the head at times, and told not to
panic, and to be tolerant and to just sit back and wait and see
what happens, and that if the situation worsens then maybe we'll
have a quiet word with them..... and in the meantime, the bomb in
the bag, on the crowded railway terminal is ticking....and the kid
who's tried to warn the rail-guard has been sent away with a
lollipop....

Mmmm .. that's poetry to my ears.

If a woman went to a doctor with a large lump in her breast, and
it was found to be malign, she'd be asked, "Why didn't you come to
us when you first noticed it? Why didn't you tell us before..?"
"Well," she may reply, sheepishly, "I thought it was probably bad,
but i didn't want to worry anyone about it... and I thought it
might just go away...."

Well it IS bad.
And it IS worth worrying about.
And it WON'T just go away.
Not until it has completely invaded the whole system, infected it
from top to bottom and destroyed it from inside.

Can you allow for the possibility that this could all transform in
a moment. I am remembering when the Berlin Wall came down and
being absolutely astonished.

The ending of apartheid in South Africa is another example. I was
attending an est seminar in Victoria, British Columbia, and during
a break we were discussing a full page ad in the Globe and Mail.
The ad was placed by the South African government and stated an
intention to end apartheid. Everyone else it seemed pooh pooh'd
the ad as hot air, but for me it was an honest statement of
intention. And they did it!!! Wow! We need something like that.

Thanks



Tim

[alexandra]

nighthawk said:

Can you allow for the possibility that this could all transform in
a moment.....? Wow! We need something like that.

Thanks



Tim

I wish it and pray for it, in all sincerity.
But something needs doing. something MUST be done.


I have posted this on various fora, and the responses I have received from other members are in the vein of the rail-guard...

"Oh my goodness, I detect so much pain in your post"....

Well, I think you may be coming on a bit strong..."

Yes but I welcome such exchanges, and I'd hate to see moderating or banning here...."

The phrase "wake up and smell the coffee" springs to mind.....

Unless people really do 'wake up' to the fact that this is a very real threat to us, this is going to go the same way as it did when Neville Chamberlain (British Prime Minister in 1939) waved the little piece of paper from Hitler, which he promised would assure us of 'Peace in our Time' .....

Am I exagerating? Of course I am... But you get my drift.

[nighthawk]

alexandra said:

<snip>

I wish it and pray for it, in all sincerity.
But something needs doing. something MUST be done.

<snip>

Unless people really do 'wake up' to the fact that this is a very real threat to us, this is going to go the same way as it did when Neville Chamberlain (British Prime Minister in 1939) waved the little piece of paper from Hitler, which he promised would assure us of 'Peace in our Time' .....

Am I exagerating? Of course I am... But you get my drift.

I don't think you are exaggerating a whit. There is a serious breakdown in communications both globally and at the level of inter-personal relationships. In my observation it's a breakdown fostered by a military/industrial complex that is up to turning the planet and all her life into a controlled farm. You can't fight with these guys, and if you do you only give them more power and find yourself targeted.

I think the solution is to be found in generating a new kind of conversation between people, a conversation that is rooted in personal integrity .. and build from there.

I think you would be interested in a piece I wrote a while back that in part addresses these issues. Might make for a conversation piece.

Fair Witness

Tim

[alexandra]

thank you Tim... i'm going to read it a couple of times to really digest the text....
being a Moderator is a difficult job...

To bring it down to the most basic level I can, for me, is that I now evaluate what I see in front of me, through standing it up against the Eightfold Path.... and my additional questions, apart from whether the post conforms to these Eight, would be..

Is it Courteous?
Is it Polite?
Would they be happy to let their Mother/Father/spouse/children to read this?

and last, but not least....

Does it take the sender's AND the recipient's DIGNITY into consideration....?

If the answers to any of these are dubious or 'no' then I have to act....

But sometimes, I have not had the last - or even the first - word... and my Moderating has come under scrutiny, question and criticism...
You get to expect that, and you have to learn to take it on the chin, and deal with it.
But if 'your' decisions are challenged time and again, then 'you' have to evaluate your own dignity against that of those in charge - and make sure 'yours' stays intact.

[nighthawk]

thank you Tim... i'm going to read it a couple of times to really
digest the text.... being a Moderator is a difficult job...

To bring it down to the most basic level I can, for me, is that I
now evaluate what I see in front of me, through standing it up
against the Eightfold Path.... and my additional questions, apart
from whether the post conforms to these Eight, would be..

Is it Courteous?
Is it Polite?
Would they be happy to let their Mother/Father/spouse/children to read this?

and last, but not least....

Does it take the sender's AND the recipient's DIGNITY into consideration....?

If the answers to any of these are dubious or 'no' then I have to act....

But sometimes, I have not had the last - or even the first -
word... and my Moderating has come under scrutiny, question and
criticism... You get to expect that, and you have to learn to take
it on the chin, and deal with it. But if 'your' decisions are
challenged time and again, then 'you' have to evaluate your own
dignity against that of those in charge - and make sure 'yours'
stays intact.

Sometimes right action is no action. Doing 'nothing' and
ruthlessly .. and compassionately .. observing and communicating
the truth, while sometimes just staying silent, will have more
effect than years of trying. It is the results that count. If I
react to 'ignorant' action with no action then the aggressor is
left flailing about with nothing to attack. If and when I do make
a move and act it will be to produce a result with certainty that
the result will be produced. Otherwise nothing is the most
effective thing to be doing. I have zero interest in putting my
own dignity, as you so well put it, at risk in the face of
ignorance. Something about pearls and swine.

Tim

[alexandra]

Unfortunately as a Moderator, the privilege of Right Silence, or the 'Ignore' button are denied to me, for obvious reasons...
Mind you, a friend of mine runs a site with 10,000 members, and he succeeded in sending out a collective post to all members, requesting they ignore a particularly unpopular and insurgent member ... this they did.... he didn't realise it for two whole weeks..... ;D

[nighthawk]

What is the group you are moderating .. sounds interesting?

[JCL]

hmm interesting theory. seems viable.