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Post by ironfeather on Feb 10, 2006 1:01:39 GMT
It [cognitive therapy] does have many good things about it, but I have also seen many of the cognitive tools put into the wrong context and therefore doing almost as much harm as good. "Feelings are not facts" being the easiest to use in wrong context. The proper context is often found in the original lectures by Dr. Low, though even that falls short of complete. [he was human too].
If the cognitive psych were to be supplemented with DBT or mindfulness practices which incorporates emotions as valid messages if not easily understood by most of us, then this would be great. The squelching of emotions is part of the collective wounding of humankind... our collective shadow. [reference to Jung again].
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Post by prady on Feb 10, 2006 7:58:09 GMT
 yep sounds like exactly the same kinda harm can actually be done with with buddhism too. how many people seem to wash away their feelings and stop dealing with them? i have got to the point in my own path where i have decided, for me, that doing this is harmful i want to live a more spontaneous life
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Post by ironfeather on Feb 13, 2006 1:23:26 GMT
totally agree there, though getting to that point [of more spontaneity] is a different ball of string.
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alexandra
Member
Right V.I.S.A.B.E.A.M
Posts: 43
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Post by alexandra on Feb 13, 2006 9:02:09 GMT
yep sounds like exactly the same kinda harm can actually be done with with buddhism too. how many people seem to wash away their feelings and stop dealing with them? Sorry, But i'd like to take issue with that....Whomsoever is practising this way is acting Unskillfully and it is therefore Wrong Intention, Wrong View and Wrong action. If they are 'wrong' then they can't be practising Buddhism, or to be more precise, they cannot have grasped the true teachings of the Buddha.... But Buddhism per se is not to blame. I truly am not trying to start a bun-fight here, and I promise that I hold respect in my heart when I say this, but.... I do wish people would stop to think about the content of their posts, and read, and re-read them, before they submit and select the 'post reply' button.... The written word is the only means by which we can effectively communicate on forum... So Right View, Intention and Speech are of paramount importance.... I have seen incalculable damage done by people (in general - I'm not pointing fingers here) who in the passion of the moment, in an effort to get their point across, and in an effort to exercise their right to be heard (and occasionally, their perceived right to be Right) have submitted emotive, hasty, inappropriate and ill-thought-out comments.... and they have over-exposed themselves...They have laid themselves bare and vulnerable to all manner of responses. They have frankly, shared too much or gone too far.... As we are discussing the Eightfold Path (and as anyone who knows me will be aware, this is a particular favourite of mine!) I think it quite important to be Mindful of the title of this thread, but to also understand that The 8Fold Path is primarily influential in everything we think, say and do. Without exception. From the instant we wake up, to the moment we slip back into sleep..... If we are to call ourselves Buddhists, (or even if we simply prefer to say that we are following the Buddhist path!) then we must make Right Effort to walk the talk.... 24/7. Thank you for your understanding.  |
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Post by ironfeather on Feb 15, 2006 9:41:38 GMT
Noted.
While I have been more mindful than average bear in western culture especially, and even the average member of the larger forum we all know, 24/7 is... well, an order 24 feet taller than me. [Even Tenzin Gyatso HHDL has difficult moments]
Just saying I am human and mortal with all the foibles and failings therein, and must remember to have couple ounces of compassion for self as I fall down often and hard. Dysphoria, PTSD and ADD are no picnic. Which the average bear in our other forum usually does not understand, or has attitude problem therein. We all know this, as the climate there is not as sunny as it once was.
Even mustering those two ounces has been tall order sometimes. The demons I wrestle with are tenacious, insidious, and somedays relentless. Why else would I be in therapy so long? I am not the kind of person who puts on a smoke and mirrors act to... I am at loss for words, the concept is not crystallizing out of my mental fog today.
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alexandra
Member
Right V.I.S.A.B.E.A.M
Posts: 43
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Post by alexandra on Feb 15, 2006 17:42:56 GMT
Quite the reverse is true. i find your posts among the most mindful and well thought-out I ever have the pleasure of reading... But you are aware ot the trials and challenges you face... You are aware of the obstacles and demons you have to either over-come or side-step... You know of the importance of how you phrase things... you know the weight words carry by the music of your poetry.
I speak of those to whom the setting down, and the speaking, of words is as natural an act as breathing out and breathing in...those who have no inner sense of trial or conquering...those to whom self-expression ranks as equal to reading a magazine....
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Post by prady on Feb 15, 2006 22:21:15 GMT
yep sounds like exactly the same kinda harm can actually be done with with buddhism too. how many people seem to wash away their feelings and stop dealing with them? Sorry, But i'd like to take issue with that....Whomsoever is practising this way is acting Unskillfully and it is therefore Wrong Intention, Wrong View and Wrong action. If they are 'wrong' then they can't be practising Buddhism, or to be more precise, they cannot have grasped the true teachings of the Buddha.... But Buddhism per se is not to blame. I truly am not trying to start a bun-fight here, and I promise that I hold respect in my heart when I say this, but.... I do wish people would stop to think about the content of their posts, and read, and re-read them, before they submit and select the 'post reply' button.... The written word is the only means by which we can effectively communicate on forum... So Right View, Intention and Speech are of paramount importance.... I have seen incalculable damage done by people (in general - I'm not pointing fingers here) who in the passion of the moment, in an effort to get their point across, and in an effort to exercise their right to be heard (and occasionally, their perceived right to be Right) have submitted emotive, hasty, inappropriate and ill-thought-out comments.... and they have over-exposed themselves...They have laid themselves bare and vulnerable to all manner of responses. They have frankly, shared too much or gone too far.... As we are discussing the Eightfold Path (and as anyone who knows me will be aware, this is a particular favourite of mine!) I think it quite important to be Mindful of the title of this thread, but to also understand that The 8Fold Path is primarily influential in everything we think, say and do. Without exception. From the instant we wake up, to the moment we slip back into sleep..... If we are to call ourselves Buddhists, (or even if we simply prefer to say that we are following the Buddhist path!) then we must make Right Effort to walk the talk.... 24/7. Thank you for your understanding. just to be clear...i do think about the words i write and i make sure what i say is said with the best intention  my words come from living in a buddhist community for 8 years, being ordained for 5 of those years and practicing buddhism for 10 years. obviously pure buddhism correctly understood and motivated correctly can do no harm.........in the long term it leads to enlightenment.....but.....not all of the buddhist path is glamerous and gentle. removing our attachment and wrong views should be a natural part of the path and i really do not believe that anyone really practicing buddhism whole heartedly and sincerely can go through all the puritfication they need to to get enlightened with out any form of suffering. so i take your point that 'pure buddhism' straight from the buddhas mouth and scriptures taught by a pure teacher and heard by a wise and careful student can cause no harm. but buddhism translated by impure teachers and then practiced by your aversge student can lead to pain. there is no harm in saying this, it is wise to hear everyones point of view. even the eight fold path can misunderstood. i haven't said anything wrong. |
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Post by prady on Feb 15, 2006 22:23:20 GMT
i am curious to know how you can judge my intention from a mere post  |
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Post by ironfeather on Feb 16, 2006 1:24:47 GMT
Do we need a template for peaceable differences?
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alexandra
Member
Right V.I.S.A.B.E.A.M
Posts: 43
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Post by alexandra on Feb 16, 2006 8:48:30 GMT
Prady, you misunderstand me... I have in no respect sought to judge you - or anyone for that matter. the one and only purpose of my post was to indicate how words can be misinterpreted and intention misunderstood, when our posts appear to be reactive and spontaneous. In fact, you then clarified in your post above. You even began it "just to be clear"... That was exactly my point. How we must be mindful about being clear. And then you do in fact go on to clarify. And I thank you for that, because otherwise I would not have known about your past experience, and your ordination and your long and dedicated practise - !  It gave me insight and background and that is what we do when we share. I was merely pointing out that in inappropriate or un-mindful ways, some run the risk of reckless speech and of sharing more than they should. No personal criticism was intended, nor did I wish to infer judgement. Far from it. Thank you Prady for coming back on this. And I think, by the way, that your Avatar is artfully delightful. |
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Post by prady on Feb 16, 2006 9:45:54 GMT
:-/well it looks like we both managed to sort that one out and i proved your point nicely  i did that little bit of art that is my avatar and i fully deluded with chuffedness and delight about it  i'm feeling a bit defensive on the tinternet front at the mo. had a fall out with someone who misunderstood me and then got my email shut down, sorry if i was too strong. i am a mere human  i love your avatar of the beautiful and kind audrey hepburn!!! thanks alexandra no need for the UN ironfeather...i'm cool just, 'like soooo defensive'  |
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alexandra
Member
Right V.I.S.A.B.E.A.M
Posts: 43
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Post by alexandra on Feb 24, 2006 23:55:16 GMT
And this is how exchanges should be... this is how people should inter-act... This is how clarification, explanation and expansion should be conducted...
It is a personal delight for me to have found, discovered, taken up or converted to Buddhism... The Triple Gem was a doorway to a slow immersion into a state of deep inner Joy and Bliss... The Four Noble Truths a revelation of something so obvious, yet so mysterious, that even now, (and probably always!) I am discovering the view of the Four from different angles and perspectives...
And the Eightfold Path..... a daily exploration and revelation of how each step takes me further into Me, and into the discovery that It's all so Simple....
But the one unexpected quiet thrill has been the encounter with like-minded people, who have done nothing but add to the sheer greatness of it all... like-minded, maybe, but independent, free-thinking, multi-faceted and glorious individuals with whom it has been a delight to walk, explore and discover.
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alexandra
Member
Right V.I.S.A.B.E.A.M
Posts: 43
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Post by alexandra on Mar 1, 2006 8:19:12 GMT
OK......
Where the HECK is everybody.....?!?
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Post by JCL on Mar 2, 2006 10:40:09 GMT
i'm here lol  |
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Post by nighthawk on Mar 3, 2006 17:42:36 GMT
I'm still here too .. sorta. I must admit though I'm trying to sort through who's who in my communications with people on the Internet. After interacting with someone who presents him/herself in one way, friendly and outgoing and honest for example, and then in a moment turns about and starts going for the jugular, I find myself drawing back and feeling less inclined to jump in and play.
Tim
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